Headers or Gears?

[Mike02z]

Ok guys. I have decided to spend 2500 on my 08. I have narrowed my choices to headers and 4.10 gears. I'm first choice would be to go with headers but I'm very concerned about passing PA inspection. I do intend to put CATS on but it still concerns me. I understand from talking with people that gears are another way to go. No real HP increase but I nice SOP upgrade. Since this is very subjective I won't ask you guys to help me choose. What I will ask is if you think I can do one of these for under 2500 installed?

I'm not equiped (yet) to do either of these jobs myself. Who would you guys recommend and what do you think I should pay for headers w/Cats and a tune installed or 4.10 gears w/hardened half shafts and install.
Thanks,
-Mike

[carboman]

Headers! American Racing or LG. If you sign up with American Racing now you can have them installed at Carlisle for I think they posted it at $1895 complete plus $150 for a tune. That's a darn good deal.

[Mike02z]

Thanks Mark! I just called Nick at ARH and will hopefully get a spot to have mine done at Carlisle.

[carboman]

Thanks Mark! I just called Nick at ARH and will hopefully get a spot to have mine done at Carlisle.

Cool! Besides the power gain the sound is great.

[Mike02z]

Thanks again Mark. I have my time all setup and I'll be getting the headers and a tune at Carlisle. This means I need to get my air intake on before then too.

[novat_99]

Thanks again Mark. I have my time all setup and I'll be getting the headers and a tune at Carlisle. This means I need to get my air intake on before then too.

Hmmm...interesting...where did you get the info? I've been debating about doing something similar to my Z06.

Tom

[carboman]

Hmmm...interesting...where did you get the info? I've been debating about doing something similar to my Z06.

Tom

There's this thing called the internet. It's a great source for all kinds of information. On the internet is an address, www.corvetteforum.com that's dedicated to everything Corvette related. There's a catch though. If you use the internet you have to send Al Gore a thank you note since he invented it :D

[George C]

If you use the internet you have to send Al Gore a thank you note since he invented it.

Mark
Would you happen to have his email address or phone number? Who is this guy anyhow? Never heard of him................;bl ..............or should I say I wish I never heard of him................;tu

[Glennm27]

Hmmm...interesting...where did you get the info? I've been debating about doing something similar to my Z06.

Tom

American Racing Headers (http://www.americanracingheaders.com/homepage.htm).

Have it done at Carlisle OR at the Vette Doctors (http://www.thevettedoctors.com/), or buy the headers and install yourself. Their (ARH) shop is just across the street from the Vette Doctors shop.

[carboman]

If you use the internet you have to send Al Gore a thank you note since he invented it.

Mark
Would you happen to have his email address or phone number? Who is this guy anyhow? Never heard of him................;bl ..............or should I say I wish I never heard of him................;tu

George,

This is gonna cost you. I guess I'll just add it to your tab plus interest.

American Racing Headers.

http://www.americanracingheaders.com/

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2079849

[Mike02z]

Hmmm...interesting...where did you get the info? I've been debating about doing something similar to my Z06.

Tom

There is a post over in the C6 Tech section of CF. They still had a few spots left for header installs when I spoke to Nick from ARH yesterday.

[novat_99]

There's this thing called the internet. It's a great source for all kinds of information. On the internet is an address, www.corvetteforum.com (http://www.corvetteforum.com) that's dedicated to everything Corvette related. There's a catch though. If you use the internet you have to send Al Gore a thank you note since he invented it :D

Cool...I'll have to check out this Corvetteforum thing of which you speak...sounds like I could spend a lot of time there:D

Found it:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2079853&highlight=american+racing+headers+carlisle

[George C]

George,

This is gonna cost you. I guess I'll just at it to your tab plus interest.
The plus interest part concerns me. I'm outta here!!!! ;ae

[carboman]

Cool...I'll have to check out this Corvetteforum thing of which you speak...sounds like I could spend a lot of time there:D

Found it:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2079853&highlight=american+racing+headers+carlisle


Be careful, it gets very expensive very quickly $$$$$$$$$$$

[C5pilot]

There's a catch though. If you use the internet you have to send Al Gore a thank you note since he invented it :D

That's odd, I was told to send cash to Ellis. :)

[Mike02z]

Be careful, it gets very expensive very quickly $$$$$$$$$$$

Tell me about it. I didn't have my car a month and I had already purchased the Mild2Wild exhaust controller, splash guards, tail light seals, body colored FRC's. Alt cover, fuse box cover, Z06 body colored spoiler and body colored door handles.

The second month was worse. I've settled down a bit now if you count the headers and tune coming up :D. I think I'll pick up a new tunnel plate too. What the heck the only time you can get to it is when the exhaust is out. See....here we go again!

[yankintx]

There is a post over in the C6 Tech section of CF. They still had a few spots left for header installs when I spoke to Nick from ARH yesterday.

Mike,
So what exactly do the headers get you in hp gains? Don't you have the NPP exhaust, and if so, are you removing it or do you leave it on with the headers?

[Mike02z]

Mike,
So what exactly do the headers get you in hp gains? Don't you have the NPP exhaust, and if so, are you removing it or do you leave it on with the headers?

John,
On an LS3 I'm hearing about 20-25 HP for headers, high flow cats and an X-pipe. I believe with a tune I can add another 10-12 HP. I'm also adding a Callaway Honker Cold Air intake which should add another 7-12 HP. I'm hoping for a total of 30-35.

The NPP is a nice compliment to the work I'm having done although I suspect with the NPP's open the car is going to be MUCH louder after the work is done. Keep in mind what I'm having done takes you right up to the NPP pipes. Everything forward will be replaced.

I'm really looking forward to Carlisle when the headers and tune will be done. I'll be putting the Honker on either this weekend or the following depending on how hot it is. No way I'm working in 95 degree heat.

[carboman]

John,
On an LS3 I'm hearing about 20-25 HP for headers, high flow cats and an X-pipe. I believe with a tune I can add another 10-12 HP. I'm also adding a Callaway Honker Cold Air intake which should add another 7-12 HP. I'm hoping for a total of 30-35.

The NPP is a nice compliment to the work I'm having done although I suspect with the NPP's open the car is going to be MUCH louder after the work is done. Keep in mind what I'm having done takes you right up to the NPP pipes. Everything forward will be replaced.

I'm really looking forward to Carlisle when the headers and tune will be done. I'll be putting the Honker on either this weekend or the following depending on how hot it is. No way I'm working in 95 degree heat.


I think you'll net more HP than you think from what you have planned. The Honker intake does nothing on the dyno but in real world driving it helps. The tune alone should net you 20hp. You will certainly enjoy the ride home from Carlisle.

[Plain Insane]

Mike, you may want to consider a heat blanket for the tunnel as the heat from the headers warms the cockpit. Whenever I've done headers and exhaust, I've also changed plugs and the coil pack wires. You can find one of my posts on a 2003 with dyno figures pre and post...all done at Berrel Auto with Dale Cherry tuning. 215-675-8515. Good luck!

[Mike02z]

Mike, you may want to consider a heat blanket for the tunnel as the heat from the headers warms the cockpit. Whenever I've done headers and exhaust, I've also changed plugs and the coil pack wires. You can find one of my posts on a 2003 with dyno figures pre and post...all done at Berrel Auto with Dale Cherry tuning. 215-675-8515. Good luck!

I would typically change my plugs and wires when having this kind of work done but my car has 850 miles on it so I think I'll pass this time. I'm looking for a tunnel plate to help with the heat but I would need ARH to install it while the exhaust is down. I'm not sure if they will be willing to do it or not.
Regards,
-Mike

[hcvone]

I would typically change my plugs and wires when having this kind of work done but my car has 850 miles on it so I think I'll pass this time. I'm looking for a tunnel plate to help with the heat but I would need ARH to install it while the exhaust is down. I'm not sure if they will be willing to do it or not.
Regards,
-Mike
I would change the plugs for sure, my last 3 C5's the gap was from .040 to .130, and that was all with less than 1000 miles on them, they ran ok, but much better after the plugs were replaced.

[yankintx]

John,
On an LS3 I'm hearing about 20-25 HP for headers, high flow cats and an X-pipe. I believe with a tune I can add another 10-12 HP. I'm also adding a Callaway Honker Cold Air intake which should add another 7-12 HP. I'm hoping for a total of 30-35.

The NPP is a nice compliment to the work I'm having done although I suspect with the NPP's open the car is going to be MUCH louder after the work is done. Keep in mind what I'm having done takes you right up to the NPP pipes. Everything forward will be replaced.

I'm really looking forward to Carlisle when the headers and tune will be done. I'll be putting the Honker on either this weekend or the following depending on how hot it is. No way I'm working in 95 degree heat.

Just curious...with all those performance mods I figure it's gonna cost in the mid 3k range and the hp gains may be 40 max? Why don't you just go to ECS and supercharge it for about 8k and get 200+ hp gains?
That's something I'm considering doing and want to hear some reasons why i shouldn't do it..

[hcvone]

Just curious...with all those performance mods I figure it's gonna cost in the mid 3k range and the hp gains may be 40 max? Why don't you just go to ECS and supercharge it for about 8k and get 200+ hp gains?
That's something I'm considering doing and want to hear some reasons why i shouldn't do it..
Warranty is the biggest reason many owners limit their mods, most dealers will not give you a problem with headers and an air intake, with a supercharger your engine, trans and rear will not be covered, and many just do not want to spend the money. :)

[yankintx]

Warranty is the biggest reason many owners limit their mods, most dealers will not give you a problem with headers and an air intake, with a supercharger your engine, trans and rear will not be covered, and many just do not want to spend the money. :)

The warranty reason is a good enough reason not to I guess.

[Norm Clemmer]

The warranty reason is a good enough reason not too I guess.

I don't know maybe I just got lucky. I put a blower on my Vette when it only had 8,000 miles and have had no regrets or engine problems. The only issue I had was with the rear and that didn't happen till I put 345s on the back.

[Mike02z]

Just curious...with all those performance mods I figure it's gonna cost in the mid 3k range and the hp gains may be 40 max? Why don't you just go to ECS and supercharge it for about 8k and get 200+ hp gains?
That's something I'm considering doing and want to hear some reasons why i shouldn't do it..

John,
My Callaway intake cost me 499, the headers with cats and an xpipe are 1895 installed and the ECS "carlisle" tune is 149 so I'm looking at 2543. There is a huge difference between 3k and 8k and even with the 8k blower you should do the mods I'm doing before the SC anyway.The SC need the better breathing of an air intake and headers.

If I had the money I'd probably still do things in the order I'm doing them in which is Air Intake, headers, tune, then either cam and heads or SC. The SC is a tough call because I'd really prefer to have a forged block first. The SC adds crazy HP and at 600+ I wonder how many miles I'd get on the stock bottom end.

[hcvone]

John,
My Callaway intake cost me 499, the headers with cats and an xpipe are 1895 installed and the ECS "carlisle" tune is 149 so I'm looking at 2543. There is a huge difference between 3k and 8k and even with the 8k blower you should do the mods I'm doing before the SC anyway.The SC need the better breathing of an air intake and headers.

If I had the money I'd probably still do things in the order I'm doing them in which is Air Intake, headers, tune, then either cam and heads or SC. The SC is a tough call because I'd really prefer to have a forged block first. The SC adds crazy HP and at 600+ I wonder how many miles I'd get on the stock bottom end.
It depends on how bad you get on it, if you take it to the track, and how lucky you are to how long a stock bottom end will last. ;)

[Mike02z]

Well I completed all the work on my car. The first thing I did was dyno the car completely stock to get a base line. Here is the dyno graph...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/jneon1/Dynorunbefore.jpg

Yes, the numbers are surprisingly low for an LS3. We did 3 pulls and they were all identical for the most part. My car only had about 900 miles on it when these runs were done.

I then installed a Callaway Honker air box, ARH LT headers w/CATs, 160 degree T-stat, Elite Engineering tunnel plate and had the car tuned by ECS. Here are the results...

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/jneon1/78f132d9.jpg

Not much else I can say except the car feels like a totally different car. it pulls much harder than it did before. The only thing I'm semi sad about is that I used to leave the NPP exhaust open 90% of the time. I loved the tone of the exhaust. Now I can't leave it open as it is just too loud and the drone at 45-65 is just insane. With the NPP closed it is still to quiet. I guess I'll be shopping for a new exhaust system soon. For now I just have to live with the quiet exhaust closed until it hits 3500 RPM when all hell breaks loose :)

Thanks for all your input!

P.S. Oh, I can't say enough good things about ECS. They came close enough to the price I got directly from ARH that it was not worth waiting to have this done at Carlisle. The shop only works on C5 and C6 vettes, the entire team is very knowledgable and friendly and they explained everything they were doing the whole install. Very clean, professional shop and I plan on using them again when I make future mods. I did opt for a full dyno tune rather than a basic tune but it was worth every penny and Doug from ECS made me a great deal on my whole job.