do you think the it is a good thing Club Challenge Cup is not avg/driver

[REDGAR]

because CCDV would be in big trouble right now if it was

club drivers points avg/driver
FCCC 1 32 32.0
CCDV 14 151 10.8
NPCC 1 9 9.0
CCA1 5 44 8.8
CCA2 3 20 6.7
LICOA 1 3 3.0

[Tony B.96LT4]

Yes, it is a good thing it's not by avg/driver. However, our racers are at different levels, from rookies to experienced racers. I don't know how long Joe has been racing but I know he's no rookie. We are also a team and if there is only one CCDV member still in the eliminations there will be CCDV members in the stands cheering them on. It would be interesting to see the percentage of CCDV vs. Car count. I believe we(the CCDV) have been @ 10% of the total and maybe a little more on some dates. Do the other clubs come out to support the "Challenge? As was discussed in the beginning of the season, we sort of knew that the CCDV with it's large membership would have an advantage over the smaller clubs. However, I personally don't see how 1 person can be considered in the running for a "Club Challenge Cup". The key word being "Club", meaning more than 1. Of course if there can be an Army of "1" I guess there can be a Club of "1". :D

[YO-EL]

Yes, it seems "odd" that only 1 member of a legitimate club is a points racer.

[C5pilot]

It was known from the very start that the club challenge was not going to be a fair race no matter how you sliced it. As long as you have teams of different sizes, it's no contest. I'm sure they'll rethink it next season, otherwise it's just silly. In the mean time, CCDV does have a true TEAM and it IS the best. :D

[REDGAR]

Tony I would be your right on the attendance. Maybe I will look at it during my flight back this week.

El, is the use of quotes on the word odd to imply that Joe is not a true club member?

Joe, our hope was that more club members, like Joe Blass, would go back to the their clubs and recruit members to compete like Al Connors club did.

Unfortunately, we see it really has not worked.

CCDV sure does win the participation award though. You (we) guys are the best.

[C5pilot]

Edgar, don't get me wrong, I know why they decided to have a club trophy (you told us in the beginning), but they're rewarding us for the wrong thing. Our clubs participation has little to do with points and trophies, it's about camaraderie. If you want to try to attract more club members, you need a different gimmick. The club trophy doesn't even allow us to "enjoy" bragging rights.

In other words, if the Eagles (try not to laugh), win the Super Bowl, it does not make ME want to go out and join a football team. Their trophy means nothing to me personally. On the other hand, the Super Bowl ring each player gets is very desirable. Even the guy who sat on the bench all season gets one just because he supported the team.

Next year a few of our drivers may not see the need to sign up again because at this rate the Club Cup will be ours for a long time. So how does the award raise participation next year? That is the flaw I see in the reward; it does not continue to payoff. You’re heart is in the right place but your incentives seem out of whack for what you’re trying to accomplish. IMHO, of course. :D

[REDGAR]

I see your point and raise you one.

If the Eagles won the super bowl and I were a fan, I would want to play football, wear Eagle stuff and be more of a Eagle fan where if they suck, (not a far stretch), then I am more likely to avoid games, get disgusted with the sport and become a Giants fan (not much of a step up either).

I am open to other suggestions. If I read into what you wrote, you are saying that each indivdual driver should be rewarded rather than the club but I don't think you were going that way.

Clubs are something I am new to. Heck I only joined CCDV to be a part of you guys here on the forum because I felt guilty participating on the forum and not being a member. Ohterwise, I would not be in a club.

So if you have another idea, shoot it over either by private email or here. Ohterwise, you are right, CCDV will continue to win the trophy for a long time.

[Bill Burkholder]

what makes CCDV a winner is the civil exchange of ideas, and the friendships that develops from a common interest. I'm proud when I see how you "racers" help each other and are willing to give up the small secrets that can make the other guy competitive. Trophy or no trophy all of you are winners.... IMHO...... :cool: ;bt

[Mike Campbell]

Hey guys, I like the football analogy. I played 8 years of organized football in school and in the army. Let me say this. Even though I wasn't the best player I played for the "team"! The stars, such as the running backs, quarterbacks and the like get their glory, while we linemen pukes just play day by day. The thrill is knowing you are a team and together you always accomplish more than the individual. Joe, the guys that win their spots get the glory. But, remember, if you want to carry the ball and be the big star,you better have some guys blocking for you too. :D The fun is in the comaradie and sharing... ;bt;bt

[C5pilot]

That's great for people who would be playing anyway... But how do you get the guy who never played before to risk "breaking" something just for the right to say, "I helped". That's the difficult part. $250 first prize doesn't put a dent into what I've spent this year just preparing to be competitive. But it sure was fun. :D

Another "problem" with the Club Cup is that so far, none of the participating clubs are rivals. It's common to get helpful advice and pointers from the guy you're going to run against in the next heat. Other sports teams have rivalries to boost morale and create a bond between players and spectators. The CC series does not have this, we're all seemingly one big happy family.

I think there's a better chance to get a rivalry going with one of the other Challenge leagues. Or it might actually be better to just split us up by states (NJ, PA, DE, MD) but you still have the uneven numbers situation to deal with. Perhaps then, you can take the top 5 or 10 scores for each state after each event. Perhaps the winning state gets to host the awards banquet that year or some other honor.

I'm just thinking out loud since Edgar asked. His goal is to attract more drivers and the clubs are obviously the first place to look. So how do we keep the series growing? How do we get bigger payouts? Media coverage? Sponsors? C'mon people, we already know the racers like it, how do we convince others?

[naples]

Maybe my perspective is a little bit different.

We all remember Aug. 30. Outside air temp was 85+, and the track temp was 103 - it was brutal!. I don't mind admitting that I was near heat exhaustion (prostration?) and needed to get out of the sun a couple of times. On my way back to my vette, I happen to pass by a fellow racer, who I did not know, waiting in his vette for the next run. For no apparent reason, I remarked to him, "and this is supposed to be fun?!"; we both had a momentary chuckle, and I went on my way.

Yes, for me, it is fun, even tho I was near heat stroke that day. I know I may never win a trophy, but I'm gonna keep trying like hell. All you guys are helping me be competitive, and that is what keeps me going. Yes, I am racing for myself, but I am also a member of a team; and as long as my competitive juices keep flowing, I'll keep coming to the track to win!!!

I want to be with my friends-all you racers are my friends. For me, there is no other explanation.

naples

[Mike Campbell]

Joe, it sounds great. Maybe we could have a "round robin" challange. Say between the Lake's Club, CCDV, the North Jersey clubs and whom ever. The only problem is, the track holds several events each time we're there. And there are hundreds of cars! The problem isn't getting people out. It's making the time available so that everybody gets 3 practice runs and then go into competetion. The track is out to make a profit, which is not a crime. There's just not enough days in a weekend to really do this. Now they could extend the season, past Nov. 15th but with the weather we have in this area....that's a joke. I'm sure Edgar and John and the rest of the planning guys will consider all these things. Meanwhile Joe, go out & kick ass!!! ;bt

[REDGAR]

Joe that is an interesting idea but would be a bit of nightmare with logistics changing and organizing the banquet every year. Funny I posted recently a the Corvette Forum about which leads in points. Not a top five thing but I may be able to swing a stat like that.

I guess I thought there were inherent rivalries amongst clubs and I know our marketing approach to clubs was luke warm at best. We sent out invitation letters to the contacts of all clubs in the Northeast with the promo folder. We did not take the time to visit the other clubs. Why, because I do a lot of the work on the series and I am out of town all the time. Al Conner had hoped to do some club visits but he found he did not have the time. I think not being able to visit clubs has hurt us. Many times I feel like I am promoting alone. Like I go to Florida, I try to go to the Club races in Maryland and New England but I get little support from the folks I feel should help me (not you guys of course as the CCDV has done a great job)

Mike the round robin idea is okay but we still cannot get the clubs to come to the events. Believe me is we bring in the car count, we can race by ourselves but we are nowhere near the needed car count to cover a Corvette only series with no other cars at the track. So since we share the round robin thing won't work. We are getting a way with the Quick 4 which is a race within a race but that is because it is only 4 cars and 2 rounds.